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Greatest Dom Trait What is best

#1 User is offline   SirDragonslayer Icon

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 09:32 PM

What is the Greatest Dom Trait? There are so many things it could be: trust, faith, love, sharing, ability to push their subs farther than they could imagine.
For me and tigerangel, I think it is the ability to listen. Sometimes life keeps us so busy we forget to do that, we assume what they want. But by listening, and we do listen sometimes, we can achieve more and progress farther. With tiger and i it a matter of personally not seeing each other more often than what we would like, when we are together, we both bring things and do things that came from conversations days or weeks prior. W/we listened to each other deeply and brought those to O/our scenes. For me, knowing that she really listens and understands me makes it so much more special. By listening to her I have felt a greater love and desires for her than any other.

WHat are others viewpoint on this?

To Me Be true to yourself and to your sub, for there is no other greater joy of one giving themselves to you

Be A friend, always be there and support each other
For she is my sub, my lover, my greatest desires, most of all, she is my best friend, cause she listens and being with her makes U/us both better. Loving you is what I want Thank you tigerangel :angel: makes me a :horndog:
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#2 User is offline   masterofthedoll Icon

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:04 PM

SDS,
Well said, Sir
I have found that one way in which my relationship with dolly has most noticably improved lately is in the area of communications, as you said to realy listen to what is being said and to express what you feel, this is something I have been working on, but the outcome is a closeness between us that grows stronger the more W/we learn,

HW
We could learn a lot from crayons:
some are sharp, some are pretty, some
are dull, some have weird names, and
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learn to live in the same box.
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#3 User is offline   MasterDale Icon

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 09:48 PM

Hi SDS,

When you try to come up with the one most important trait for the making of a good Dominant, it's kind of like saying which ingredient is the most important for baking a strawberry shortcake. Is it the strawberries? No. Without the shortcake, the strawberries would be just that...strawberries. And what of the cake, if any of the ingredients are not in the right proportion, the cake will be bad and take away from the quality of the end product.

So, it seems to Me that there are many limiting factors in what total up to creating a good Dominant. There are many characteristics that add to the complete recipe......and without which the "cake" will fall short of expectations. And then there is the fact that what makes a Dominant perfect for one person could make them perfectly wrong for another one. In My way of looking at things, the judgement of who is right for whom falls on the Dominant's shoulders. It is the Dominant's responsibility to see past His/Her own selfish needs, and peer inside the submissive to understand their needs, too. With that vision, He/She can direct His/Her own actions in a way that will steer the course of the entire relationship.

So, I see this perception of Self and the perception of others as the most important skill for a Dominant to have. This is a skill that too many whip toting sadists don't have. They toss out a selfish take Me or leave Me proposition. Their only interest is in getting their own jollies. Without the Dominant knowing just who They, Themselves are and finding the proper match to that in a submissive, there is little hope of building any kind of lasting relationship. But, once the Dominant has made that good choice, then all those other skills that were mentioned in your post come into play. As you said, trust, faith, love, sharing, ability to push the sub will follow if the Dominant is receptive to who the sub really is inside. If the Dominant is oblivious to who the sub is, the relationship will not work.

For those Dominants who dont necessarily see all the good things in front of Them, a sub who offers a little help in the vision department can be a blessing to the both of them. I didn't mean to imply that the submissive brings nothing to the relationship. It's not unusual for them to help the Dominant see many things. I just think it is the Dominant who bears the responsibility for steering the relationship in many ways. So Their skills in understanding people...Themselves and their subs....could well be the most important ones.

Just My opinion........ :soap:

M. Dale
Be careful of what you wish for....Posted Image ....you just might get it.
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#4 User is offline   MasterDale Icon

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 09:24 AM

Oh, and this thread is good reading on the subject, too:

http://md.masterdale...hp?showtopic=74
Be careful of what you wish for....Posted Image ....you just might get it.
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#5 User is offline   leilou Icon

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Posted 30 May 2004 - 08:23 PM

hmm....thought about this and only have this to say....
The Greatest Dominant is the One that owns me. *grins and slips out*
"People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true."
- Robert J. Ringer.

"We must not allow other people's limited perceptions to define us"
- Virginia Satir
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#6 User is offline   Mustang Icon

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 02:48 PM

The single most important ingredient is really pretty simple.

I think a lot of times we tend to look at things and get caught up in the "big picture" and well.. to be honest.. it scares me. In being "master" I have such a huge responsibility. That responsibility includes every aspect of life. So, stepping back and viewing the big picture is not where I can be effective. I need to remain focused.

In learning to focus, when allows me to take more and more responsibility, I have had to look at this very question... "what is the most important trait I can have to accomplish the tasks at hand better?" What I have learned is that trait, ingredient, whatever you want to call it, is...

love

If I did not love, I could not do what needs to be done on a long-term basis. The hardest part of this little word, "love" ... is that in English, there is only one word for love... when in fact there are several types. The Greeks defined several types of love.. and I think the right ingredient is a balance of the different types of love so that you have the ability to correct, teach, guide, impassion, develop intimacy, etc... from a position of what it best for the person, and the relationship. Sometimes what is best for the relationship is not always what is "pleasing" to the individual.

The three primary types of love defined by the Greeks were...

Phileo love is the friendship love. You know the friends you share this love with, they are the one's you would tell/talk to about anything openly... they are the one's that you can talk to after a few years and it's just like you talked yesterday.
Eros love is the sexual or passionate type of love. This is the most chaotic of the loves. There is much energy here and passion, emotions run deep and hard here.
Agape is the self sacrificing love that is not easily angered, is forgiving, seeks the truth, can withstand things for a just cause, etc. This is the love that keeps relationships bound together for the long-term. I think the best thing that sums this form of love is it always has the best outcome in mind.

So.. in my narrow-minded thoughts.. the only ingredient a man needs is a mixture of the things that add up to the English word "love."

BTW - I'm not narrowed minded enough to think that "all you need is love" -- but it is the primary/most important ingredient.

Mustang
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#7 User is offline   tenderseverity Icon

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Posted 25 March 2006 - 11:31 AM

? A dominant is a ruler, but never a tyrant.
But to rule requires understanding, and understanding requires humility.
? A dominant has pride, but never arrogance.
But pride requires dignity, and dignity requires humility.
? A dominant commands respect, but never fear.
But respect requires serenity, and serenity requires humility.
? A dominant employs strength, but never force.
But strength requires knowledge, and knowledge requires humility.
? A dominant criticises, but never derides.
But criticism requires insight, and insight requires humility.
? A dominant receives, but never takes.
But receiving requires giving, and giving requires humility.
? A dominant completes, but never tries to alter.
But to complete one must be able to see what is there, not what is missing, and this most of all requires humility.
J. Mikael Togneri copyrighted this
I post it for its surprising answer to the question posed here
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#8 User is offline   honeypenny Icon

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Posted 25 March 2006 - 04:32 PM

Very thoughtful piece he wrote. And true, every word of it.

penny
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#9 User is offline   moonvirgo Icon

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 12:33 PM

Although I disagree, I complete respect and admire how Mustang boiled this down as the one most important ingredient to his dominance was love. My Owner and I have a great relationship very much predicated on a love connection, but I have heard him say many times how love sometimes interferes with his ability to do certain things to me (To be more truthful, he has never used the word interfere, that is my word, and I do not think it causes him pain the way the word interfere might imply). I do think that makes him a great Dom as he respects his own as well as my boundaries on what it is that we have. In a way, I think he worries it is rather fragile and so does not want to mess with it in the sadistic ways he could devise. He has often said he would enjoy having a partner to whom he had less of an emotional attachment so that he could play out some of those other thoughts. And despite not having love in those arrangements, I still think he would be a great Dom.

So I have two questions: have any of you ever felt like love limited your D/s? If so, how have you reconciled that?

And two: have any of you felt you knew or were a good dominant who lacked love in their relationship to whomever was sub to that person?

-- 88
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#10 User is offline   MasterDale Icon

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 01:54 PM

Quote

So I have two questions: have any of you ever felt like love limited your D/s? If so, how have you reconciled that?

And two: have any of you felt you knew or were a good dominant who lacked love in their relationship to whomever was sub to that person?


Before answering directly, I want to make a distinction here. It is My own viewpoint, and of course others may not agree with it. And also, even if people don't agree, they may see that there can be many sides and different interpretations to the same questions.

In My opinion, a relationship requires love. That is the attractor that helps create the relationship in the first place and it is the glue that keeps it together once the initial thrill of the kink has passed. Going one step further, in order for a Lifestyle relationship to really be a Lifestyle relationship, there has to be some D/s, M/s, or even D/d in place to maintain that Lifestyle dynamic. Otherwise, it is just a vanilla relationship.

So, by My way of seeing things, a D/s relationship will inevitably be tempered by love and all of the care and concerns that come with loving someone. Loving the partner has to have an effect.

On the other hand, two people who engage in BDSM type activites but don't do it with that bond of love are not in a relationship, as I see it. The arrangement might be for a one time scene and they never see eachother again. They may be casual, regular play partners who only meet to do scenes occasionally....returning to their independent and discreet existences after the play is done. Or, they might even be a M/s......locked together in a Slave Contract that is more business arrangement than relationship. In each of these cases, the people may be tied to another person for some finite period by their individual desires, but the tie may not necessarily be about getting, giving, or being in love.

In another thread ( http://md.masterdale...showtopic=2279) there was some discussion about Fifth Angel. Fern said:

Quote

This....man was a demo bottom for some of the impact sessioning. He was brought to his knees.....His legs, thighs, calfs, butt, and upper arms were welted... And one of the people in the audience asked the bottom why he would allow anyone to do this to him..........He said that he has been a bottom for several decades. And all through those years, he gave control. Fifth Angel takes control.


I think this begins to touch on my answer to 88's first question. In My mind, I am much more concerned about the aftermath of My own actions on My lady. I have sadistic tendencies and enjoy many acts that may be too harsh for her. So I temper My sadism with love. I dont do anything I will regret later. And My payback is not in pure self indulgent sadistic fulfillment, it is in the multitude of things that our loving relationship gives Me.

In the case of Fifth Angel, as described above, the man was a demonstration volunteer. He was entering a short term contract with Fifth Angel. Each was looking to get something out of it. The sadism was not bridled by love. If anything tempered it, it was probably only the inevitable problems that doing severe damage to the submissive would have caused. And this is purely selfish motivation on Fifth Angel's part. He doesn't want to go to jail for assault or murder. Other than that, the submissive is there for one reason only....Fifth Angel's gratification.

For Me, tempering My BDSM with love is not a loss to Me. I am in a long term relationship that is based in love first, and BDSM second. Yes, they are intricately entwined with eachother and sometimes it's not easy to see where one begins and the other ends. I reconcile both extremes.... the moderation of sadism/D-s/ BDSM and the moderation of My feelings to love and protect...... by knowing I am giving her the very best of what I am in all ways. This relationship holds a complicated set of needs for both of us. We both give and compromise to see that those needs are fulfilled as much as they can be while still preserving the "glue" that keeps us together. Not all acts that fulfill one or the other of us are constructive, trust building, and relationship building. Love, communication, and compromise make it all work, somehow.

As for question number two....I think that a lot of what I have to say has already been said above. I believe that if a person has a desire to be a bottom or slave they can do this without the D/s dynamic that defines a Lifestyle relationship. They can do it without love. They may have the love they need in other segments of their life and they only step outside of that loving place to get their darker, BDSM needs filled. Then they return to where they came from. Or maybe love has been broken out of their hearts. That happens, too. Perhaps they have substitued punishment and retribution for love. For people like this, and others with less dramatic deficiencies.....the acts of BDSM may be all the release and all the affirmation they want.

But, no matter how they arrive at this, these kinds of people are akin to the demo sub that Fifth Angel brought to his knees. Fifth Angel doesn't do this with love in his heart. Yet he is astoundingly effective in giving the sub/bottom/slave what they need. In the context of a short "contract" or arrangement, a Dominant can be a very good one for a sub. But I think this kind of arrangement would fall apart if the sub needs those warmer human elements like love and lasting relationships.

I hope I answered the questions in a way the you all understand them....

M. Dale

(also know as Master Obtuse on some occasions *chuckles*)
Be careful of what you wish for....Posted Image ....you just might get it.
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#11 User is offline   Michael's jewel Icon

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 07:31 PM

Quote

So I have two questions: have any of you ever felt like love limited your D/s? If so, how have you reconciled that?

And two: have any of you felt you knew or were a good dominant who lacked love in their relationship to whomever was sub to that person?

-- 88


Hiya, 88! Great questions!

To the first set, yes, i have been limited by Michael's (my Husband of 26 yrs, best buds for over 30 yrs and Sir to me for 7 yrs now) love for me. How He reconciled that was in educating Himself, by keeping His mind open (also directly to do with the love He has for me), in being flexible and setting His personal limits as He does that for me too. How W/we reconciled that together was through gut wrenching honesty and never ending communication.

To the second question, does a deep and unabiding love of themself count as love here? *g* Yes, i am mostly joking and although it is more the exception than the rule, i do know dominants who i doubt love their submissives. But even with that, even defining love and the expressions of love take on so many differing hues. Almost without exception, those are Master/slave couples. But most of the M/s couples (or more than two) that i know.......love is the foundation of everything that they do.

Yes, Master Obtuse, that you are at times....but wow....so is all of this which we love and love to toss around too.....aint it though?

Master Dale, Sir, although i really like the analogy that you made about Fifth Angel's degree of sadism....i need to clarify something....the man that i was posting about in that is one of FA's submissives, not just a demo volunteer. i did not make that point clear in my other post. BUT.....at that same demo, several others were just demo volunteers. Those persons did enter a very short term arrangement with Fifth Angel. And there was not a whole lotta love going on, even with them. With him, it is pure sadism, short term or not.

Interesting enough though, when he asked for a volunteer from the audience at one point, same sub male was sitting with a dozen or more ice packs on his body. He raised his hand to take more lol....at that point, Fifth Angel over flowed with love for this man. It was so obvious.

And at another point, he brought my friend, who is a dominant, no if and or buts about that one..She told him as much and that she had never been flogged...lol......he brought her to tears with the floggers that he uses. When that happened, he went to her face and held her close and whispered to her. She did not get specific in his words, but , again, from what she told me later, he is capable of immense love and understanding. Now it seems that i am defending him......i just felt that i had to clarify it. And it does prove my other point somewhat.....love is different to each of us.....as is the expressions of love.
"For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart.
It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul."

-Judy Garland

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#12 User is offline   ONEEOD Icon

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 08:13 AM

Damn, I promised myself I was going to stay out of this one since Dale sort of touched on a piece of what I was thinking. Here is a slight twist that may help.

The things that we originally wanted and what drew us to a particular person are probably as varied as plant names. There is no way that any particular trait, no matter how important to any individual, is going to fit the mold of the "many". So I offer the word "consistency" as a point to ponder.

Not to mean "stale" or "stagnant", but as a bedrock to branch out from. When we have a stable base we can boldly go wherever we want and feel free to try all kinds of new things with the certainty that there will always be a "home base" to come back to. This holds true for any kind of relationship and can work for any "family" makeup.

I won't ramble on with this, but in the words of that culinary master and famous chicken cooker, Bon Appetite.
"Seek and ye shall find"
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#13 User is offline   MistressLydia Icon

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 02:17 PM

View PostMustang, on Jul 18 2004, 03:48 PM, said:

The single most important ingredient is really pretty simple.

I think a lot of times we tend to look at things and get caught up in the "big picture" and well.. to be honest.. it scares me. In being "master" I have such a huge responsibility. That responsibility includes every aspect of life. So, stepping back and viewing the big picture is not where I can be effective. I need to remain focused.

In learning to focus, when allows me to take more and more responsibility, I have had to look at this very question... "what is the most important trait I can have to accomplish the tasks at hand better?" What I have learned is that trait, ingredient, whatever you want to call it, is...

love

If I did not love, I could not do what needs to be done on a long-term basis. The hardest part of this little word, "love" ... is that in English, there is only one word for love... when in fact there are several types. The Greeks defined several types of love.. and I think the right ingredient is a balance of the different types of love so that you have the ability to correct, teach, guide, impassion, develop intimacy, etc... from a position of what it best for the person, and the relationship. Sometimes what is best for the relationship is not always what is "pleasing" to the individual.

The three primary types of love defined by the Greeks were...

Phileo love is the friendship love. You know the friends you share this love with, they are the one's you would tell/talk to about anything openly... they are the one's that you can talk to after a few years and it's just like you talked yesterday.
Eros love is the sexual or passionate type of love. This is the most chaotic of the loves. There is much energy here and passion, emotions run deep and hard here.
Agape is the self sacrificing love that is not easily angered, is forgiving, seeks the truth, can withstand things for a just cause, etc. This is the love that keeps relationships bound together for the long-term. I think the best thing that sums this form of love is it always has the best outcome in mind.

So.. in my narrow-minded thoughts.. the only ingredient a man needs is a mixture of the things that add up to the English word "love."

BTW - I'm not narrowed minded enough to think that "all you need is love" -- but it is the primary/most important ingredient.

Mustang



Well put
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#14 User is offline   Morniel Icon

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 06:29 PM

A dominant's greatest trait?
Honesty, without which there cannot be
Love, without which there cannot be a
Relationship
Morniel
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#15 User is offline   MasterDale Icon

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 07:55 PM

Yes Morniel. Honesty is so important. It is probably worthy of another thread all on it's own, if someone wants to start it. Just to tickle that idea a little....

If a person tells all, tells the truth, and tells it in a timely fashion are they being totally honest? Not necessarily. What if they believe things about themself to be true but those things are based on lies they have built into a persona they live in every day? There may be a "surface" truth that is hiding a bigger lie below the surface.

What if someone just doesn't say anything at all? Is it being protective of someone's feelings? Or is it a lie based on omission? They can be open and and honest up to a point...then become very vague. The most common example is a married man who is cheating on his wife with someone else and he conveniently forgets to mention he is married.

I am sure there are many more half truths, gray areas, and deceits that we pull on eachother that can be part of a thread on truth. But I agree, Morniel. Truth is a trust builder. And trust is what so much in our Lfiestyle is based on.

M. Dale
Be careful of what you wish for....Posted Image ....you just might get it.
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