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Financial Domination Mostly legitimate... or mostly abuse?

#1 User is offline   Tralish Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 04:21 PM

I realize I don't post much, but, I have had a few things on my mind recently that I can't recall seeing discussed on this board, and thought were interesting subjects. It's been said recently if you're unhappy with the lack of posts, put your money where your mouth is... so I'm doing so. One of these subjects was brought up by a local classified ad ridiculed on the local bdsm group. I'll post just a portion.




"Seeking Money Slaves!" by GoddessXXXXX

"... Seeking money slaves to keep Me in the lap of luxury. This is
real slavery, I expect to live the lifestyle a Goddess deserves and
you will live in squallor. I am here to make sure of that slaves.

My intention is not to bankrupt you since you would have no value to
Me, Your Goddess. slaves will feel their lifestyle change as I put
them on a strict allowance. Understand I am very high maintenance and
I will not tolerate money slaves who only hald commit.

I have the following bills available. When slaves email me, it will
indicate which bill it will adopt.




The article goes on to list various bills including rent, car payment, clothing, and so on. It even lists items for sale to "slaves who don't have enough money to spoil Me" including nail clippings and used panties. You get the idea.

To me, this is a pretty clear example of a way "financial domination" can be a load of bs. It can be flat abusive, as also shown by the example of a girl who used to come onto the local group and complain about how when she was bad, her Master would make her pay him as a punishment.

However, I can also see very legitimate uses in a trusting relationship, such as the Dominant being responsible for financial well-being as much as everything else, and perhaps giving an allowance to a sub, especially if s/he is irresponsible with money.

So I wonder... how credible is this? Is it a subject that is rarely discussed in bdsm circles, or often discussed? Is it looked down upon? And what about pro-Dominants? Is that a form of financial domination?



Tralish
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#2 User is offline   tiamet Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:21 PM

I am going to address the ad that you quoted.

People are quick to jump on financial dominatrixes. But there are men out there who have this fetish....they get deep emotional satisfaction and sexual release from supporting a woman from a distance. They enjoy living a frugal lifestyle because it is a constant reminder of thier enslavement and thier ability to provide for the object of thier worship. This type of relationship is what they want, not what they are "settling for".

Now, there are women out there who really harshly exploit money slaves. These women derive thier joy not from the financial support they recieve, but from the cruel thrill of ruining a man. Once they have ruined a man, they walk away and find another victim.

This woman demonstrated that she did not want to harshly exploit these men. They were given the ability to choose the level of tribute that they could afford, and she is obviouslly interested in maintaining thier financial health and developing long term relations with them. I don't think she is doing anything wrong.
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#3 User is offline   Tralish Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:34 PM

I hadn't really thought about that, and you make a good point. My apologies. So do you believe that this tends to be legitimate?


Tralish
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#4 User is offline   MasterDale Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:53 PM

Two people mutually agreeing to engage in activity that is not harmful to either? That is what we are talking about, right? I may not want to be involved in that kind of a relationship with anyone, but I can understand where some would have that need. As Tiamet said, if no one is getting ruined by this, then financial slavery is just another expression of a person's submission.

I suppose that it is really easy to equate this fetish with prostitution, since it goes hand in hand. Even if a Pro Domme never has sex with her clients, if she takes money to provide sexual gratification then it is still prostitution. And that word carries a lot of ugly, negative connotations. It's really easy for people to talk trash about Pros.

Because of one particular close friendship, I have met some very successful, top Pros in the NYC area...as well as a few from other areas. Outside of their professional settings, these women have been gracious, intelligent, and generally fun to be around. These women are not streetwalkers. They are sophisticated, highly skilled, insightful women dealing in a complicated "product".....and serving that product to some of the most demanding and successful clients in the world. The really top Pros demand a high price, live well, and often get a high degree of financial devotion from their clients. I don't see anything wrong with this. Everyone is getting what they want. I know that socializing with a few of these Ladies made me see this much more clearly.

At the other end of the spectrum are the many websites out there with some uneducated lazy slut (or a guy pimping out lazy sluts) who wants to find suckers to bleed for cash. The only thing they give these guys back are their cancelled checks. Other than that, it is all take, take, take. I won't say I am real fond of this, but if no one is getting damaged by it, then it is really none of My business. It is only when people are led to....or allowed to do self destruction that it really becomes abhorrent to Me. I think every Lifestyle activity should give us some kind of benefit. If it is all about harming yourself or others, then people are not pursuing the Lifestyle at all. They are just doing damage.

So, as this theme of being judgemental comes up again, I guess we all have to make our own choices as to what is acceptable or not. Clearly, not all BDSM or Lifestyle activities happens between people who are "dating" or married to eachother. Many people seek out Pros to get the things they can not find any other way. Some will argue that if there is a money exchange, than it is not BDSM at all....that it is only prostitution. But I think it is BDSM. It is just another variety of BDSM. And it could easily be that the exchange of money is exactly what the client needs as part of their fulfilling experience.

M. Dale
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#5 User is offline   tina1981 Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:20 PM

Quote

People are quick to jump on financial dominatrixes. But there are men out there who have this fetish


i actually didn't know that, i love hearing and learning about different fetishes... so after reading this i had to go google it to learn more... one thing though, are there not men that like to financially dominate? All i can find is stuff on female financial Dominants.
"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These people have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep, loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen. "
- Elizabeth Kubler Ross
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#6 User is offline   Tralish Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:24 PM

Okay, it definitely seems my reasons for posting have been misinterpreted. I wasn't trying to be judgemental. Though I may have been somewhat, Tia addressed my error pretty simply. I don't disapprove of "financial domination" unless it's actually a cover to take advantage/abuse people. However, I never see it discussed on bdsm websites, or in r/l conventions or such. I haven't seen it listed on any checklist, even some very comprehensive ones. I wondered why this is? I wondered what thoughts people may have on the subject.

Pro-Doms are an interesting aspect of this to me. It's debatable whether they financially dominate to me, but even if one believes they do, there's an argument to be made over whether they do it actively or it's just an aside, not their real focus, or even is a "necessary evil."

I wasn't posting this trying to badmouth anything, I simply thought this was an interesting topic to discuss, which I've heard very little about.


Tralish
"It's a small world and it smells funny." - Sisters of Mercy
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#7 User is offline   tiamet Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:28 PM

tina, you bring up an interesting point.....financial domination does seem to be confined to the F/m dynamic.....I have never really seen it the other way either. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that men seem to integrate thier careers/earning ability into thier sense of self much more so than women do.

Quoting Dale:

Quote

At the other end of the spectrum are the many websites out there with some uneducated lazy slut (or a guy pimping out lazy sluts) who wants to find suckers to bleed for cash. The only thing they give these guys back are their cancelled checks. Other than that, it is all take, take, take. I won't say I am real fond of this, but if no one is getting damaged by it, then it is really none of My business. It is only when people are led to....or allowed to do self destruction that it really becomes abhorrent to Me. I think every Lifestyle activity should give us some kind of benefit. If it is all about harming yourself or others, then people are not pursuing the Lifestyle at all. They are just doing damage.


There is unfortunately a LOT of this crap in the financial domination sector. While the activity itself is not bad, it is unfortunately very often prone to exploitation.
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#8 User is offline   tiamet Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:45 PM

Sorry if I am hogging this thread a bit...Tralish hit a topic that is a favorite of mine and which I now realize I have been subconsciouslly avoiding discussing.

I wanted to comment on another thought in his original post:

Quote

However, I can also see very legitimate uses in a trusting relationship, such as the Dominant being responsible for financial well-being as much as everything else, and perhaps giving an allowance to a sub, especially if s/he is irresponsible with money.



Up there I said that I felt that financial domination services (when offered by an ethical Domme) are healthy forms of D/s interaction. If I was to ever go Pro, financial domination and keyholding are the only services I would offer.

However I don't feel that financial domination within a relationship is healthy. I have experienced this from both sides of the dynamic, and have viewed it played out in other's relationships. I have never seen it fail to produce underlying resentment in both parties.

In our society money is a need up there with air and water. A game here and there can be fun....but when you start trying to ration or restrict gauranteed access to a survival necessity over a long term basis, it is going to backfire. The sub feels resentment that is a survival instinct, which triggers rciprocal resentment in the Dom/me.

Tralish, I'm glad to see you here posting. I hate that my first response to one of your threads is an opposing viewpoint. Please don't take it as a lack of respect or approval. You have both of those things from me.
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#9 User is offline   Tralish Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 10:36 PM

I have no problem with your "hogging" this thread. It seems to me you have several interesting things to say. I have no problem with your viewpoint opposing mine. I respect you as well, Tia. *smiles*


I have no experience with financial domination, so I defer to your view of what's unhealthy. It's interesting to hear.

As for the issue of F/m being the main dynamic where this occurs, I've noticed the same, and you may have a point. However, I don't think that's the only reason. It may also be related to whatever causes men to visit prostitutes much more frequently. While there may be gigalos and a certain number of women who use prostitutes, the overwhelming majority of "johns" seem to be male.


Oh, and as for the crap in financial domination... that's exactly why I subtitled this "mostly legitimate... or mostly abuse?" Do you think the majority of "Dom/mes" in these settings tend to be honest and reasonable... or tend to just be users and abusers?
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#10 User is offline   Ravenika Icon

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 03:17 AM

I'm glad this subject has been brought up, it's something I had wondered about, too. The posts from all have been educational to me and for that I'm thankful.

I've seen similar ads. I will be honest, my first inclincation was, "How is this different than prostitution?" Then again, I find myself to be a fairly independent and financially healthy woman (yes, I have debt, but it's MINE, and I OWN it), so it doesn't set well with me to consider having someone "pay" to have me live in a certain way. Call me stupid, lol... I guess most would jump at the chance to have help to pay bills, but this is really going into a different direction than I think the *legitimate* individuals that have this fetish are going.

Simply put, it is a fetish I don't have, and don't understand. That doesn't mean that I can't try to understand it in others.

I will admit that prior to reading the posts, I didn't understand it. I think M'Dale's post spoke the clearest, "if B/both parties are agreeing, then what is the problem?" True words, that. Certainly, as M'Tiamet said, there are people who really DO have this fetish, and do need an outlet for it.

I'm glad to be better educated on this issue. I'll not wrinkle up my nose when I see these ads anymore. Well, not as much as before. :twitch:
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#11 User is offline   tiamet Icon

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 06:49 AM

I have thought about this fetish a good bit. At this point I have not solicited any financial slaves, and I've turned down a few who have contacted me. Considering I was being offered regular infusions of free money, it wasn't the easiest choice.

Although I am drawn to it, the thing that makes me queasy about financial domination is the way it creates dependence in the Domme. Once a Domme becomes dependent on a slave, the doorways by which Domme Disease can manifest are just flung wide open.

Also *I* personally have to have some sort of relationship with a man beyond emails flaunting the way I frivolously spend his money. lol, and since I don't frivolously spend money (dear slave, your contribution topped off my IRA for the year, now I can start on my Keogh account) maybe I couldn't keep them hooked.

I have thought that if I met men who were both into chastity and financial domination that then I would be interested. Basically a situation where they would pay me for release....but for whatever reason the two fetishes don't seem to coincide very often.

I say all this to demonstrate that a lot of thought and ethical restraint has to go into this type of thing for it to be done well, and that even if it starts well, it has the tendency to degenerate into unhealthy patterns.

It calls me, and one day I may run into one or two men I would play with in this fashion. I have considered putting up a website....but repeatedlly decided against it.

I can't say whether the majority of financial domination websites are bad are not...I know that some certainly are.
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